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Open A11y Working Group Conference Call (14 October 2008)

Preliminary Items


  • Janina Sajka (JS/chair)
    • Andrés G. Aragoneses (AA)
    • Stew Benedict (SB)
    • David Bolter (DB)
    • Gregory J. Rosmaita (GJR/scribe)
    • Olaf Schmidt (OS)
      • regrets: Pete Brunet, Mick Curran, Peter Korn, James Teh

For Reference

Approval of Past Minutes

Meeting Minutes

Topic 1: Approval of IAccessible2, version 1.0.2

IAccessible2 Background

IAccessible2 RFC concluded 30 June 2008; the SIG fielded a few comments; Pete Brunet and the IAccessible2 SIG have reviewed the comments, made slight changes, and have frozen the specification in preparation for the entire Open A11y Workgoup's approval. Once Workgroup approval has been obtained, IAccessible2, version 1.0.2 will be forwarded to The Linux Foundation's board for approval by our umbrella organization.

IAccessible2, version 1.0.2 (RFC version):
IAccessible2, RFC version 1.0.2 in HTML
IAccessible2, RFC version 1.0.2 as IDL
Errata for IAccessible 2, version 1.0.2

Recent Developments:

Vote on Approval IAccessible2, version 1.0.2 as an Open A11y Specification

Preliminary Discussion/Background on IAccessible2, version 1.0.2

GJR: received six affirmative votes via email

JS: shall we voice vote via roll call?

OS: how will abstentions be counted -- will they be ignored or interpreted as "no"

JS: an abstention will be counted as a "no"

Votes Received Via Email

Roll Call Voice Vote

  • Olaf Schmidt: yes
  • Janina Sajka: yes
  • GJR: yes and many many thanks to spec developers
  • Stew Benedict: yes
  • David Bolter: yes
  • Andrés G. Aragoneses: abstain

Result of Vote on Approval of IAccessible2, version 1.0.2

RESOLVED: IAccessible2, version 1.0.2 approved as an Open Accessibility Specification

JS: will forward to LF Board of Directors; if LF does adopt it, have opportunity to move spec to ISO certification; not Worgroup's intent at this time -- a lot of expense and travel and work involved in getting spec to ISO status; had been our intention to do so until a few months ago;

JS: will forward IA2, 1.0.2, as approved, to board of directors of LF and report back

Post-Vote Discussion

AA: would like to explain why i abstained; i haven't been able to look at the specification in any great detail; would like to re-review and write something about it vis à vis AT-SPI; given that IA2 built on MSAA; MSAA copyright still held by Microsoft

JS: IPR issues?

AA: i was wondering if not including them would be a bad thing

JS: IA2 based on ATK/AT-SPI to provide support that MSAA doesn't support; MSAA spec goes back to 1996; intent is IA2 to be very close to AT-SPI; next step is setting up conversation between AT-SPI and IA2 people to address issues not just ; MS never raised IPR concern with IA2; not derived from MSAA, but builds upon it, use work on open document as model; invitation to work with IA2 group extended to MS, but MS has formed new organization (AIA) to foster that -- been in communication with AIA since inception; trying to work out terms of licenses and patent understandings so we could be comfortable working with them without restrictions which would hamstring free software, open source, open licensing, and open standards -- free to be adopted and free for people to work on; roadblock is IPR issues: what they have offered so far vis a vis IPR policies moving forward

AA: thanks a lot - that explains a lot

AA: any issues pending from Microsoft?

JS: Microsoft asked for 2 methods to be incorporated into IA2 spec; would like to include, but need to ensure that this won't form basis of IPR claim/contest in future -- want to ensure that keep open source and open standards; contact made inside Microsoft -- we would like to include them, but not clear about ability to do so due to IPR issues -- 2 responses: yes, it is not ok just to include that (engineers can't speak for company no matter how much want to work on project); no clear policy from legal/administrative wing of Microsoft -- 3 or 4 weeks since last communication on that -- have had several joint calls both WG to WG and AIA Steering Committee to Open A11y Executive

AA: just want Microsoft to say "no problem legally to implement this" - Microsoft as copyright holder?

JS: no joint copyright; open source all the way

JS: minimal implementation not specified anywhere -- no way to know if covered or not covered, if in trouble, if not in trouble

Topic 2: GNOME Hackfest Feedback

AA: interesting: a lot of people involved; person from GNOME Foundation at first accessibility meeting, along with Mark Doffman speaking about work done with Mike Gorse; report on mono project; Willie Walker also did a presentation

AA: don't know if issues that arose at end of session have been addressed or followed up

JS: did have interesting presentations; useful on-the-fly meetings with people working on other projects; had 1 structured on first day with WebKit folks and what user issues need to be addressed; what is supported in GNOME stack; interface to applications to make AT work with them; not from content side (markup exposed and how cleanly and well-written), but approached from user side -- what is needed; they came to the meeting voluntarily to understand accessibility needs better

JS: Mark Doffman working to get Orca running over D-Bus - getting close -- on track for user testing - AT stack on D-Bus instead of CORBA; Mike, Mark, and Rob made VERY clear that want to integrate as painlessly as possible -- provide same functionality without having to change the stack

AA: the target of the at-spi-dbus project is to be fully tested by the community in the upcoming versions of GNOME (2.24 and 2.26) with an eye in bundling it by default in GNOME 2.28

JS: don't remember hearing any commitment there

JS: had conversation on side with JonathanB about pulse audio -- important to have architecture address specific audio devices and consistency in boot sequence; not acceptable for accessibility; need to be clean about which devices talking to and be very clear which ones particular apps will use: for example, this sound card x will be used by Orca to provide TTS, the second sound card want dedicated to musical composition

Topic 3: Web Site Update

Recently Added Resources

New Business

JS: ISimpleDOMNode will be topic of upcoming IA2 call -- some way to expose inner markup (XML in another document) -- need not only to expose, but provide navigation of various granularity for EH to work; concerns about ISimpleDOMNode appropriate method; Aaron Leventhal will be there -- timing of meeting is tailored to mitigating the earliness of the call for the Australian participants; same phone number and same conference code

Identify Topics for the 28 October 2008 Teleconference

Note: There will not be an Open A11y call on 2008-10-21. The next Open A11y call will be held on 2008-10-28.

Wrap Up

Summary of New Action Items

Summary of Continued Action Items

  • ACTION GJR: set up ISimpleDOMNode wiki page to facillitate discussion of the used of ISimpleDOMNode as part of the expert handlers architecture, amongst and between IA2 developers and ATK/AT-SPI developers

Summary of Resolutions

  • RESOLVED: IAccessible2, version 1.0.2 approved as an Open Accessibility Specification
  • there will not be a meeting on 21 October 2008
  • the next Open A11y call will be held on 28 October 2008