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Open A11y Working Group Conference Call (25 March 2008)



Mike Gorse: user of access technology -- created yasr: a console screen reader for Unix and eflite: an emacspeak server for Festival Lite; also use Orca; working on Novell team on porting mono to ATK with Calvin Gainsford and Michael Meeks, and am personally very interested in D-Bus migration;

JS: Olaf and Gunnar Schmidt, Willie Walker, Rob Taylor (and his CodeThink cronies), are amongst Open A11y's leads on D-Bus issue; Bill Haneman also available to provide input upon request; very glad to have your participation and expertise

Preliminary Items

Agenda Review/New Business

JS: Olaf, agree with your post on LGPL compatibility of UIAutomation Community Promise -- you raised a number of issues we need to elevate with AIA; we will discuss this further during the call

Approval of Past Minutes

approved as submitted without objection

Meeting Minutes

Topic 1: CSUN2008: De-Briefing and Follow-Up

JS: overview of what transpired at CSUN will lead us into discussion of next steps with AT-SPI and next steps with AIA conversation on collaboration in the open; topics broached at CSUN: IAccessible2, Expert Handlers Use Cases, Keyboard Functional Specification

JS: participated at CSUN (put in pointers) -- audience participation at panels varied from 8 to 10 to a pretty packed room of approximately 70 to 80 for the IAccessible2 panel; attendees at general Open A11y panel, mostly people getting acquainted with what we are doing; a lot of questions about macintosh/apple participation

JS: Expert Handlers panel went well -- had substantive discussion; agreement that Expert Handlers are needed; discussion about implementation strategies -- Neil Soiffer, chair of Expert Handlers SIG following up; for me, biggest news is GW Micro is fine with ceeding control to an Expert Handler

JS: IAccessible2 meeting very well attended -- large panel of implementors; spoke about implementation and concerns -- a lot of lively conversation with audience

JS: overview: KAFS and KAFS GTA ready to go to Linux Foundation for approval and then is on fast track to ISO standard status

JS: AT-SPI -- need to do 2 things at the moment: 1) look for funding for migration to D-Bus engineering -- commitment for approximately a third of the money for CodeThink to do the work -- any suggestions as for other funding sources welcome

JS: met Nokia's accessibility representative for the united states -- asked him to put me in touch with person at nokia mothership to keep nokia involved in Open A11y; two AT-SPI issues: 1) would like VERY much to continue Trolltech's participation in Open A11y -- crucial for QT and KDE in migration to D-Bus; 2) could still move forward with testing -- need to get proposal out to build tests based on orca tests -- when have working, will submit to LSB; activity been in planning for quite a while

Topic 2: Formal Approval of Keyboard Access Functional Specification

For Reference:

Topic 3: Coordinating Next Meeting with AIA

For Reference:

JS: ongoing conversation with AIA -- had opportunity to meet Robert Sinclair in person; attended IAccessible2 CSUN 2008 presentation; raised Microsoft's concern that IA2 developed first at IBM, donated to Free Standards Group (FSG), FSG then merged with Open Source Development Labs (OSDL) to form The Linux Foundation, IA2 on Linux Foundation approval track -- fast track opportunity to make LF approved specs ISO standards due to LF's status with ISO -- this is of enourmous concern to Microsoft -- once an ISO standard harder to change, Microsoft might have to change coding, how does this square with collaboration?; told Robert Sinclair that because we CAN go to ISO standard doesn't mean we MUST in this case; cited AT-SPI case -- XML for D-Bus needs to be written before things made normative; started conversation, need to move conversation on IPR -- in particular, should IAccessible2 move to ISO status? IPR issues with AIA

JS: thank you Olaf for creating a public record about LGPL Compatibility with UIA Community Promise in email -- good review, good analysis -- can expand upon it; probably need to handle in a more formal manner (terms under which UIA can be used by developers) -- needs to be an actual IPR policy, not a policy statement on a web page; need to make GPL and LGPL developers happy -- KDE, Sun, Mozilla to name but 3 -- have to know AIA's IPR policy; ISO track can be the stick from which the carrot dangles; goal is openess in development and interoperability

OS: main question is compatibility of community promise with GPL and LGPL -- similar promise investigated by lawyers found that there are possible problems; MS doesn't have means of dealing with problems -- should make sure that results are useable by all; licensing questions; much easier if check these things early on, rather than address later to make cooperation work -- if there are going to be IPR problems, we need to ask a lawyer about them

JS: bottom line is getting LF moving forward on IPR policy -- unsettled as of now -- will elevate questions to Jim Zevlin and LF's lawyer who promised Open A11y an IPR policy which is now long overdue

OS: do not garuntee that promise under GPL because people interpret in different way" -- need to ask MS if they have made a declarative, definitive interpretation

JS: anything on a web page can be changed overnight -- need more formal statement

SL: GrokLaw might be able to help -- helped with ODF

OS: need for discretion -- and for direct answers to direct questions;

JS: issue for Keyboard Access Functional Specification (KAFS) -- just have a blanket copyright claim

GJR: KAFS covered for now under U.S. law -- if one claims copyright on a work in the U.S., one holds a valid copyright on that work -- still need clear articulated IPR policy from Linux Foundation; JS and i have been working on getting an IPR policy from LF's lawyers and executives

GJR: more of an issue for IAccesible2 and AT-SPI and IDLs -- LF uses GPL2 for software/libraries distribution

JS: ready for next round with AIA? there is no formal policy

JS: next meeting with AIA -- April 15 or April 22?

scribe's note: no objections recorded

ACTION JS: suggest meeting with AIA on 15 or 22 April 2008

SL: at GNOME summit this summer chatted with test lead for nokia accessibility -- discussed internet tablet -- AT-SPI too big a footprint due to bonobo; don't have surname; professed interest in D-Bus over bonobo

JS: can you send me contact info?

SL: have to do some digging

JS: will check attendees for GNOME summit -- thanks SL for the info -- very useful

Wrap Up

Items for Next Meeting's Agenda

JS: welcome again to Michael, hope to hear from you soon

JS: not going to be available for next 2 weeks -- next week will be at FOSSIE (Federal IT vendor's convention -- represent Open A11y at linux accessibility table -- demo on laptop using orca and firefox; advance visibility of Open A11y; week following is LF collaboration forum in Austin

SB: will be there as well

JS: next opportunity for group to meet in 3 weeks; promised AIA people follow-up in April -- mid-to-late April

Summary of New Action Items

  • ACTION JS: suggest meeting with AIA on 15 or 22 April 2008

Summary of Continued Action Items

Summary of Resolutions