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Agenda for 2008/07/22

  1. Introductions if needed
  2. Approval of prior minutes
    • Corrections? Approval?
  3. LF: Open A11y news - Janina
  4. AccProbe inspect tool - Mike Squillace
  5. Firefox - Marco Zehe
  6. IA2 text attributes specification. Firefox 3 is implementing text attributes. This is being tracked with bug 340809. Some issues are:
    • Static text: For Firefox this is text generated by the browser such as number and bullet prefixes in lists, and possibly in the future, things like tables of contents, indexes, footnotes, etc. This is bug 445516. Symphony will use the currently specified list attribute. For Symphony, tables of contents, indexes, footnotes, etc. are handled as any other kind of text. We need to get input from the ATVs.
    • Defaults: The Firefox team would like defaults for text attributes to cut down on the amount of data in the attribute list. The Firefox defaults are listed here. This is bug 445511.
  7. IA2 1.0.2 review period has completed.
    • Pete and Jamie have been working on the text for IAHyperlink. The latest text is in this post.
    • Jamie sent Pete a patch with fixes that will make it easier to creaet a tlb file. Pete will incorporate these changes. The patch has these fixes:
      • use of enum for states
      • removal from the library statement of IAccessibleEventId, IAccessibleRole, and IAccessibleStates.
      • Proper naming of structs so that midl generated names aren't used in the tlb.
    • Remaining work items:
      • Complete rework of HTML to meet Open A11y guidelines. Gregory merged his changes into the latest CSS file.
      • Verify that there are no impacts on generated code from v1.0.1
      • Submit to the Linux Foundation Board of Directors for approval.
      • Move 3/26/2007 1.0.1 IDL to BZR.
      • When 1.0.2 is approved move the IDL to BZR.
  8. Proxy DLL
    • Jamie to attach the proxy DLL that NVDA built to bug 110.
    • When the 1.0.2 files are added to BZR, Pete to include the files needed to build the proxy DLL.
    • Nobody has yet created the DLL using Visual C Express Edition so once someone has done that we need to update the process in the wiki.
    • That wiki page probably needs other changes.
  9. IA2 issues from Calvin Gaisford, opened on the behalf of AIA. Jamie was going to get back with findings related to the second bullet under bug 114.
    • Issue 112: Commentary was added to the IDL.
    • Issue 113: This will probably remain as is.
    • Issue 114:
      • Microsoft attached the IAccessibleEx specification to the bug log. This spec is protected under the "UI Automation Specification and Community Promise". Pending review by Andy Updegrove.
      • We have to analyze the impact on apps and ATs due to changing the proxy DLL and the merged IDL file. There should be no problems but we need to make sure. Jamie commented that the DLL should not be a problem because COM is "question and answer" based rather then a binary spec where things have to be at certain offsets.
    • Issue 115: Input is needed from Microsoft. This would probably be a version 2 issue.
    • Issue 116: Commentary was added to the IDL.
    • Issue 117: Input is needed from Microsoft. This would probably either be a version 2 issue or remain as is.
    • Issue 118: Commentary was added to the IDL.
  10. LF/AIA Inter-organizational cooperation
    • How should Open A11y collaborate with AIA (Accessibility Interoperability Alliance)?
  11. Access to spelling and grammar errors
    • Note that revisions and smart tags are discussed in separate sections below.
    • The OpenOffice team would like to solve this with a new interface. Oliver-Rainer Wittmann from Sun sent email some time ago describing an interface proposal. However, the NVDA team (and likely other ATVs) feel the most natural fit from a AT perspective would like to solve this with text attributes. The Firefox team is, at least initially, in favor of using text attributes. We need to get input from other ATVs.
    • Using IAHypertext/IAHyperlink is not a good solution. The ATs handle links by speaking the word "link" or speaking the link text in a higher pitch.
    • In some cases using text attributes would require a bit of processing, e.g. when the substring associated with a lengthy grammar error also has a number of text attribute changes such as font face or font weight changes.
    • Conceptually spelling and grammar errors aren't a good fit for attributes. Attributes tend to define the look of the text, e.g. font, color, bold, italics, etc. However, there is nothing inherent in the name "text attributes" that indicates that they must necessarily be limited to visual formatting alone. Also, error information would be handled in a similar way by many ATs, i.e. the error would be read as additional information when moving through or reading the text.
    • A major issue is that internally OpenOffice doesn't maintain the error information as attributes so would have to always manufacture it. Also OpenOffice doesn't have any events that can be fired as the caret moves across the boundaries of spelling and grammar errors.
    • In a browser, ARIA provides for various reasons that a range of text could be invalid -- "spelling", "grammar", or "true" (the general case where data isn't valid in a particular context), for example in the case of an input tokenizer processing a list of email addresses separated by commas and one of the email addresses is incorrect.
  12. Access to smart tags
    • Symphony uses IAHypertext/IAHyperlink for smart tags. This seems reasonable because smart tags are very similar to links. They represent actionable text. IAHyperlink can represent more than one action which is common for smart tags.
      • One concern might be that speaking the word "link" might not be the best fit for a smart tag. One possible solution could be to check for the existence of two or more actions and speak the word "smart tag" in that case.
  13. Access to document revisions - from the ODF AccSC
    • This was reviewed by the AIA Interop group. The following issues were raised.
      • What is the solution for non-text attributes, e.g. tables, images, charts, cells, spreadsheets?
      • How are comment only revisions handled?
      • Probably need more kinds of format changes besides insertion, deletion, and format change.
      • Use cases are needed.
      • getSegmentAtOffset (singular) needs to be getSegmentsAtOffset (plural) because unlink links there could be overlapping insertions and deletions.
    • Once these issues are resolved Li Yuan, the committer for ATK/AT-SPI will develop a patch.

enum IA2RevisionType {
  IA2_REVTYPE_FORMAT_CHANGE  // The revision is due to any change in formatting attributes. 

typedef struct {
    enum IA2RevisionType type;  
    BSTR time;  ///< ISO 8601 format:  YYYY-MM-DDThh:mm:ss (eg 1997-07-16T19:20:21)
    BSTR author;
    BSTR comments;
} IA2RevisionInformation;

// Note: an object that implements IARevisionText must also implement IAText
// returns the number of segments available for the
// block of text represented by the IARevisionText object.
// this number is 1 based
get_segmentCount( long* count );
// returns a specific segment based on the index passed in
// the index is 0 based.
// no two indexes should return the same segment.
// any index >= 0, and less than the segment count should return a valid segment
// any index outside those bounds should set HRESULT to S_FALSE and return NULL
get_segment( long index,  IARevisionSegment** seg );
// returns a segment whose boundaries encompass the offset provided
// if there are no segments that correspond to the given offset, an error is produced
// offsets correspond identically to those used by IAText and IAHyperlink
get_segmentAtOffset( long offset, IARevisionSegment** seg );

// returns the bounding offsets of the segment within the IARevisionText/IAText object.
// the end offset is one past the last character in the revision text
get_bounds( long* start, long* end );

// returns a struct containing date/time, author, and comments
get_attributes( IA2RevisionAttributes *attributes );
// returns a set of name value pairs describing additional application
// specific attributes in the format "name:value;name:value"
get_extraAttributes( BSTR* extraAttributes );

No progress on the following

  1. IA2 object attributes specification.
      • The Symphony and FF3 object attributes will be reviewed. The common attributes will become part of the IA2 object attributes spec and the spec will reference the FF3 and Symphony specific specifications. (The Symphony object attributes are not documented on any Symphony web site, but they'll soon be documented on the IA2 site.)
      • Pete to add a "display" attribute with CSS2 values.
  2. Items raised by NVDA last year need to be put on the agenda for an upcoming Open A11y meeting
    • These are generic issues that need to be solved for both IA2 and ATK/AT-SPI dealing with objects contained in documents and tables
    • See items 4 and 5 in the October 2nd minutes for the history.
    • This was discussed during the January 22 Open a11y meeting.
    • These should be reopened and discussed with Willie and Li Yuan at a call convenient to the US, China, and Australia.
  3. Eclipse
  4. Wikipedia
  5. Developer Guide - Best practices document. We should start an outline for a best practices document. For starters it should define the following:
    • What events should be fired for each role and in what order.
    • What object hierarchy should be used. There are two today, a flat hierarchy as used in Symphony and a deeper hierarchy as used in Firefox. These two should be documented and in order to cut down on the proliferation of designs, future applications should attempt to use one or the other.
  6. Oleacc.idl
    • No new status on when it will be back in the SDK.
  7. FAQ