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Open A11y Working Group Conference Call (22 July 2008)


  • Janina Sajka (JS/chair)
    • Andrés G. Aragoneses (AA)
    • Stew Benedict (SB)
    • Pete Brunet (PB)
    • Mark Doffman (MD)
    • Calvin Gainsford (CG)
    • Mike Gorse (MG)
    • Gregory J. Rosmaita (GJR/scribe)
    • Olaf Schmidt (OS)
    • Will Walker (WW)
      • regrets: David Bolter

PB: Andrés, please email me about phone problems -- may be able to fix

CG: some background - Andrés starting to work as project manager, so will be regularly attending the calls -- will be able to give status reports etc.

For Reference

Preliminary Items

Approval of Past Minutes

Action Items Status Review

  • Continued Action Items
    • ACTION: GJR - work on homepage reformat options and present to workgroup
      • status: pending WG review

Meeting Minutes

Topic 1: DBus Port Updates, Documentation & News

For Reference:

JS: MGorse added text to DBus wiki; thanks very much - got trees very nicely, need date and the trees; note that not updated in a while - could reuse addendum language proposed for SOI and detail of who is working on what and adding more contextualizing between 2005 and 2008 - in 2006 no expectation that GNOME a11y would be leaving CORBA (still reference CORBA in wiki)

JS: another possibility: take old wiki, leave historical and start a new one that really picks up from where that one ends, less to read to find out what is happening now; second approach to what to do with wiki -- archive it, refer to it, and link to new page; "here is history; here is what is happening now"

AA: like JS' idea

MG: irrelevant stuff should be removed and/or archived;

JS: quite a bit of it

MD: obstacle stuff needs editing; prune and contextualize

JS: value for keeping old language for archival/historical reasons?

MD: can keep and mark as archival historical

JS: label old one as obsolete - reflective of thinking in 2005-2006; remove mike's comments; make immutable or archive (mark as obsolete); start new page to reference archived page ("history of how we got here")

GJR: want to keep consistent/permanent URI for latest version of documentation

scribe's note: general agreement on retaining old URI as URI for latest iteration of DBus wiki page

ACTION: GJR -- make this happen

MG: may just want to take page before my changes - removed info such as "DBus 18x slower than CORBA" according to an old benchmark, but that is no longer true

OS: page as currently is should freeze; need both snapshot of recent/current work and future

OS: archive page as currently is;

JS: OS comments on MG's additions?

OS: keep in there

JS: need to date-stamp mike's additions

ACTION: GJR - add date-stamp to mike's additions

GJR: should remove obsolete and/or erroneous info; GJR will work with MG

OS: change log for wiki page lists only the addition of links or either the addition of additional info - all are dated;

GJR: can use wiki to create snapshots for archival material - move history and related pages to new URI so as to keep old URI the URI for the latest version

JS: Mark, do you have a Dbus technical update?

MD: doing other stuff at CodeThink and attending a lot of conferences; MikeG finished off a lot of Cspy stuff; working on testing that - unit tests for Cspy - hopefully be able to talk about soon and get assistants

JS: anyone else?

CG: nothing to report - been away from project for a bit; but should be able to update in next couple of meetings

Topic 2: Continued Review of Statement on Desktop Interoperability (SOI)

Janina's Proposed Addendum to Open A11y Statement on Desktop Interoperability (SOI)

source: JaninaS post to accessibility list (21 July 2008)

29 July 2008

Functioning today as the Open A11y Workgroup in the Linux Foundation, We offer this brief update to reaffirm the vision and commitment expressed in our Statement On Desktop Accessibility Development.

We are pleased to note that we are moving forward toward making our expressed commitment a daily reality for persons who require accessibility support in their computing environments. In particular a generous grant from the Mozilla Foundation enabled CodeThink to provide our Workgroup with an engineering study that demonstrated the practicality of moving AT-SPI from Corba to Dbus. Our agreement to move AT-SPI to Dbus will remove a major impediment to the realization of our vision. We are greatly pleased, therefore, that funding from Nokia Corporation is enabling CodeThink to effect this transition, which is expected to be ready for testing during 2009. Additional details can be found on our Dbus Wiki, located at:

JS: background: Statement of Intent explicitly spells out Open Accessiblity's commitment to toolkit and desktop neutrality -- goals are tools that work harmoniously in accordance with standards, and which can access tools from other toolkits and applications wherever AT-SPI support exists; would like to reaffirm support for SOI; useful to say "we have moved forward on this vision" - moving GNOME from CORBA to DBus removes major obstacle to intent, roadmap and mission

JS: what i posted is just a draft -- starting point as to how to update SOI; we can word-smith on list (preferably); comfortable with consistency of documents; older materials holding up well moving into future

JS: reactions? accuracy? completeness?

AA: like Janina's wording

JS: propose we return to addendum next week after workgroup has a chance to digest it

JS: purposefully dated draft for next week to provide time for reflection

scribe's note: no objections were lodged during the teleconference

Topic 3: SIG Updates

IAccessible2, version 1.0.2, STATUS UPDATE:

IAccessible2 RFC concluded 30 June 2008; fielded a few comments; PeteB and IA2 SIG in process of closing spec down - should expect to have formal voting period on IA2 specification fairly soon.

IAccessible2, version 1.0.2 (RFC version):
IAccessible2, RFC version 1.0.2 in HTML
IAccessible2, RFC version 1.0.2 as IDL

IAccessible2 Status Report

PB: fielded comments, discussed; got feedback from NVDA to tweak libraries table -- will be patched; GJR working on styling for doxygen generation; need to find out process on how to submit to board, when and what is involved

JS: process: as soon as IA2 and PB think is finished, submit to this group for review at a Tuesday call to approve and forward spec to LF directors; goes to LF as Open A11y Workgroup

PB: 2 weeks from today?

JS: perfect

JS: PeteB, please email list to let us know that submission to group, will give group week to look at it

PB: once Open A11y approves, what happens?

JS: formally forward to LF directors, then when they next meet will vote

PB: next meeting scheduled yet?

JS: will check - meet monthly, usually

PB: don't know of any other deadlines

JS: congratulations

PB: thanks to everyone who contributed

WW: should try to figure out how to start AT-SPI alignment document

PB: not aware of any differences -- harmonized thanks to Aaron Leventhal, haven't changed code since

PB: as things come up - such as "revision interface" - will bring to AT-SPI - "revision interface" not in AT-SPI right now, Li Young agreed to implement; asked AIA group to review; 2 issues to address

WW: timing perspective - GNOME 2.24 going out late September early October

PB: revisions: spelling and grammar errors; and "smart tags" - want to get straightened with AIA

GJR: there will be an errata page listing errors in documentation; errata within the code will be submitted via Bugzilla

Reviving the AT-SPI SIG

JS: mentioned to Mark that we are prepared to fire up the AT-SPI SIG - need telecon facility; deep dive into issue solving; MD can you propose a date and time -- weekly, monthly, more often, can offer this teleconference facility to accommodate that

MD: MMeeks on holiday, so need to coordinate with him; talked yesterday about technical aspects and concerns

GJR: please keep me in the loop on AT-SPI SIG developments -- there is a whole AT-SPI SIG sub-site ready for your use, and i as webmaster am at your disposal

Topic 4: Website Update

Coordination of AT-SPI Documentation and References

GJR: need to coordinate AT-SPI info and documentation at Open A11y with; will post a list of AT-SPI documents under development, in limbo, and in search of maintainers to the main list so as to begin coordination so as to avoid redundancy, overlap, gaps, and so on

WW: having Open A11y makes a lot of sense; propose getting rid of GNOME stuff and putting references and documents in Open A11y space; seems most manageable

JS: we welcome that, will -- our Statement of Intent stresses "toolkit neutrality" so need to walk that walk as it is becoming realistic for KDE and others to support

WW: neutrality a good asset

Home Page Reformat Options

Home Page Proposed Link Replacements

ACTION: GJR - effect proposed link replacements

Resources in Search of a Maintainer:

New Business

Face to Face Opportunity in 2009

JS: KDE's Akademy 2009 and Guadec are being held next year at the same place (Las Palmas de Gran Canaria) and same time (beginning 3 July 2009) -- ideal time-frame for an Open A11y face to face meeting in Los Palmas; shall we shoot for that?

scribe's note: general agreement that this is a good idea and a good target to aim towards

Open A11y/AIA Liaison/Collaboration Update

JS: AIA update - expanded AIA steering committee includes Rich Schwerdtfeger of IBM also member of Open A11y -- invitation coming from AIA to us for continuing discussion; call last week didn't happen between JS, Andy Updegrove and Karen Copenhaver and the AIA Steering Committee, and possibly Jim Zevlin (Linux Foundation director); will pick up from where conversation left off in Open A11y

JS: will suggest if can't get big issues solved, we at least start to work iteratively -- such as updating Comparisons of Accessibility & DOM APIs with UIA info as well as IA2 info; may be able to move forward on open documentation versus software licensing and code distributions

JS: microsoft's Community Promise a bit confused between open standards and open source; suspect that the upcoming summit call will satisfy any lingering misconceptions

JS: nothing definite scheduled yet, but should be before end of month/beginning of August

Identify Topics for 29 JULY 2008 Teleconference

JS: approval of draft addendum for Statement of Intent will be discussed on list (as necessary) and brought to a workgroup consensus call at 29 July 2008 call

JS: pending the summit meeting with the AIA, i will report back to the working group after the call occurs

Wrap Up

Summary of New Action Items

Summary of Continued Action Items

Summary of Resolutions