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Minutes of the Open A11y Expert Handlers SIG Call 2008/11/03

Preliminary Business


  • Neil Soiffer (NS/chair)
    • Pete Brunet (PB)
    • Gregory J. Rosmaita (GJR/scribe)
    • Janina Sajka (JS)
      • regrets: Alexander Surkov

Agenda Review

Approval of Last Meeting's Minutes

Minutes of Expert Handlers Conference Call 2008/11/03

Topic 1: Expert Handler Meeting Times

JS: currently 6:10 tuesday morning in syndney; 5:10 elsewhere in Australia

NS: what about moving the meeting so that it starts 3 hours later? 5pm on East Coast, 2pm Pacific time, and 8 or 9 in the morning in Australia

JS: ok for me, but maybe Monday as a meeting day is not optimal

NS: our Monday is their Tuesday morning

GJR: ARIA calls on Monday from 3 to 4:30 stroke 5, so moving 3 hours later fine with me

JS: moving Handlers call to 5pm East Coast monday is fine with me, too

PB: IA2 meets Tuesday to accommodate Mick's & Jamie's participation

NS: move 3 hours later on monday

JS: other days or times? should poll via email and ensure hear from mick and jamie

ACTION: JS - email list about potentially shifting meeting time to 5pm EST Mondays - ensure hear from mick and jamie

Topic 2: ISimpleDOMNode & AT-SPI Recap/Discussion

For Reference:

Note: discussion of this topic per se has been postponed until next meeting or until the time of Handlers call change.

NS: wondering why this is an Expert Handler's document

GJR: it is under Handlers because i received action item from this group to construct the page in the context of handlers; original action item to construct the ISimpleDOMNode wiki page came about from conversation at earlier Handlers meetings; since action item came from the Handlers group, i thought it made sense to place the page in Handlers web space

GJR: my aim throughout tenure as webmaster is to achieve consistency and simplicity, but some resources have historical origins that i am loathe to move; also, because moving some of the historical resources would be a large time commitment to ensure that all of the redirects are set properly;

NS: but since ISimpleDOMNode discussion has been continued with a wider audience, so i would prefer if the wiki page is moved one level up

JS: agree with GJR's decision; it started here, and i don't want the wiki to get muddled with too many resources scattered in various places; keep

Topic 3: Expert Handlers Requirements Document

GJR: admittedly, this rough draft is separated into 2 sections: the introduction to the document, its relation to other Handlers documents; the actual "Requirements" portion is obviously highly "gregorian" -- what we need to do is to determine: 1) what technologies are needed; and 2) proper distribution of responsibilities between the three or four layers: the specialized content markup, the application rendering stroke interpreting the content, the expert handler, and the AT

JS: thought i picked up a concern not to let AT or applications off the hook to handle "mainstream" syntaxes, such as HTML4.x/XHTML 1.0 properly

PB: can't rely on AT to provide keyboard support -- robust keyboard support has to be supported natively

GJR: the document admittedly is a very rough draft, which is why it is version-marked 0.1 -- please comment on list or use the discussion page to suggest changes, additions, corrections, opposing viewpoints, and so on -- i attempted to ensure that anyone who does read the Requirements document knew that it is very much a work in progress and that, at this stage, does not represent the consensus nor has it the approval of the Handlers SIG or the Open A11y Workgroup

NS: first potential problem is "robust support for unicode" as GJR stated it -- handler knows how to translate unicode characters; 3000 in mathplayer list -- should be braille codes; beyond what AT is willing to do; names of characters change according to context, as well

JS: useful that AT allow user to be able to write in translation for character, so if developer misses one, user can add it or a set

NS: extended braille table handling going to be difficult -- further complication: symbols in some braille codes are context aware;

GJR: 3 tiers as opposed to 2

NS: different axis from expert handler needs to do to provide accessibility support

GJR: scribe's note: GJR's case for use of GRDDL unminuted

NS: not sure that either the Expert Handler or application needs that burden

JS: what's going to render all of this? where responsibility lie for all of this? is that another heading in expert dialects table -- what rendererers support, how they support them?

NS: rendering is an accessibility issue -- can't magnify something if can't render / isn't rendered

GJR: AT should key off reality not abstract of reality, such as a virtual buffer and an outdated, not-automatically-freshed snapshot of the DOM onLoad;

JS: a lot of AT agreement in principle that expert handler needed -- have to keep working on who/what responsible for who/what

JS: Sun Microsystems got EU grant to work on accessibility; multi-million, multi-year commitment; perhaps we can get some grant money from that association

Topic 4: Expert Handlers at CSUN2009?

GJR: this is officially a moot point, as today was deadline for submissions

Topic 5: Web Site Updates

JS: impressed by current list; need to ensure that there are examples stroke test suites; can help on checking support for MusicXML

ACTION: GJR - ensure that there are links to examples for each SMLs

Wrap Up

Identify Issues for 10 November 2008 Expert Handlers Call

  1. decide upon meeting time change
  2. more discussion of requirements
  3. exploring more examples of SMLs and SML User Agents

Action Items Assigned at the 2008/11/03 Handlers Call