- 1 Minutes of the Open A11y Expert Handlers SIG Call 2008/04/21
- 1.1 Attendance
- 1.2 Minutes of Expert Handlers Conference Call 2008/04/21
- 1.3 Summary of Action Items Assigned at the 2008/04/21 Handlers Call
Minutes of the Open A11y Expert Handlers SIG Call 2008/04/21
- Neil Soiffer (NS/chair)
- Vladmir Bulatov (VB)
- Pete Brunet (PB)
- Gregory J. Rosmaita (GJR, scribe)
- Janina Sajka (JS)
- regrets: none logged
Approval of Last Meeting's Minutes
- Minutes from 2008/04/07 Expert Handlers Conference Call
- note: the 2008/04/14 Expert Handlers call was cancelled
Minutes of Expert Handlers Conference Call 2008/04/21
Note: These minutes have not yet been finalized.
TOPIC: Editing Scenarios / Changes to DOM
- For Reference
- Accessibility and Document Object Model API Comparisons
- Expert Handlers: Reviews, Comments and Strategies
- Element Traversal Specification (W3C Working Draft)
- DOM Bindings for MathML
- CellML - a bio-chemical XML-Based Markup Language
PB: have to consider integration between browser, handler and AT
PB: browser knows nothing about content, a plug-in could be used;
PB: plug-in would have built-in capabilities; respond to plug-in specific keystrokes
PB: also need relation between AT and an AT plug-in to convert specialized content to understandable text, speech, braille
NS: step back a moment - forget Expert Handler for now, what happens today when someone inputs text -- something updates the DOM in some way
PB: browser environment?
PB: text widget - when active and has focus works like most word processing programs; left and right arrow - char to char; up and down, move to adjacent line; control left arrow control right arrow, move from word to word;
NS: how does it know
PB: AT watches keystrokes;
GJR: control up arrow and control down, move up/down by paragraph is an AT-supplied function, i.e. not typically an app based keyboard command.
NS: receives keystroke event and checks DOM as to where it is
PB: either the DOM or in the case of IA2 can access caret location in the current object via IAccessibleText methods.
PB: Microsoft has done a lot of documentation on standard keystrokes
NS: need to know more about mac/apple
PB: listing of keystrokes neeeded
GJR: try checking AOL Developers' DHTML Style Guide
PB: keystroke set that doesn't interfere
JS: read word move to with control+RightArrow - read char with RightArrow
NS: when moved by word, would read whole word - placed thing to read on MSAA interface; expert put out "here is what i think you should read after you do this"
PB: could do that
JS: where was, move focus, interpret?
NS: expert handler controls movement through key structure
NS: made expert handler decide what to speak
NS: example: land on fraction, state a over b rather than "fraction"; expert handler took control over output (what user hears)
NS: for text editor, is it the AT program that follows navigation through document tree
PB: AT knows due to standardization, this keystroke means to do x and AT will interpret what to speak when x encountered
PB: Expert Handler should be able to talk to AT by firing an event
NS: measure as opposed to note -- how would AT realize that? Expert Handler would determine "here is what to read"
PB: need to talk with AT vendors
NS: 2 separate calls
PB: flag as "speech" or "braille" better -- request whichever, so is ready for when user ready
NS: AT sees a key press, knows needs to communicate -- is there an event that fires that says POR has changed
GJR: not in MSAA, but comes with IA2
PB: built-in application mechanism
NS: first static approach, second is more dynamic - needed for synchronized rendering, braille, etc.
PB: best way would be to let author put up applet and use alt for marked up string; AT needs converter to interpret string; determine right sequence for text or braille; then deliver to TTS or braille display
NS: need standard interface for AT to discover EH (Expert Handler); EH has to ask for speech -- more complicated but more powerful
PB: 2 types of EH -- 1) AT EH - makes MathML understandable; and 2) UA EH - handles editing capability
JS: could be plug in for UA, OpenOffice or stand-alone
NS: text is already supported - what exists today: have form field; still needs to support text along with math; exist in wiki (TeX conversion to MathML) - plugins for wikis
NS: editing is usually either WYSIWYG textual/linear
JS: pen-based or tablet-based computing model?
NS: microsoft has a tablet-based math converter that works really well; not well known
NS: another product MathTalk were one speaks (somewhat stylized speech -- alpha plus bravo (for a plus b) -- speak and math shows up; WISYWIG editors, and text editors
NS: speech and handwriting probably only 1 percent of users;
JS: but have been applied to produce MathML
NS: speech turns into TeX which can then be converted to MathML
NS: WISYWIG: MathType, Word's Math editor, and TeX dominant
NS: "TeX-lite" interface on wikis -- type between $ (dollar signs) and will be rendered by wiki as MathML; when edit, goes back to TeX
JS: limited list of what things can be
NS: TeX-like syntax or MathML
PB: EH plug-in to browser; is there concept of objects as move through structure, or one big textual object?
PB: when caret moves
NS: objects inter-related - might move into child or parent - ask where am i in a fraction - how to get info?
PB: An example of structure is a listitem in a list. The listitem has text on the listitem acc name.
NS: that will be flat, but contained in structure
PB: listitem has accessiblename from which you can get text; can query list to find out how many children it has
NS: need something more than "there 4 children" -- how to make sense in a musical context
NS: structured markup is what EH is
PB: structure then exposed as a11y call to AT
NS: each markup language has own set of names
JS: if focus on one - limited list of what things can be -- those elements grouped together make a larger document structure; bindings definable and queriable; list of terms that incorporate children
NS: MathML DTD or Schema describing structure
PB: event can be fired from numerator, or one of terms of numerator -- as each expression subobject gets control -- depending on how the browser EH plug-in is currently navigating the expression -- under control of the user via the EH plug-in UI -- thus user has control over speech output
NS: complex expressions - may need summary -- not sure how to deal with that
NS: can easily imagine chemical structural language
JS: speak whole thing by default, let user stop and localize by subparts/piece by piece
JS: command that localizes level of navigation
JS: expose models first
PB: big picture: two EH plug-ins, one for the browser, one for the AT. The browser EH provides UI to navigate through the special content; The AT EH knows how to transform specialized markup into speech or braille; browser EH provides keyboard interface for objects/elements - the granularity can be controlled by the user - the typical navigation requests would be previous, current, and next item at the currently specified level of granularity - when objects in the browser EH get focus they fire focus events; the AT asks the object for its acc name which would expressed in a standardized markup language for a particular discipline (math, music, chem) and then the AT would call the AT EH for a transformation of a specific kind (Braille, TTS) and then the AT would output the TTS/Braille to the TTS or Braille engine.
GJR: check to see if what is needed is addressed sufficiently in the XML Events 2 "implements" attribute discussions and the new Element Traversal Specification (W3C Working Draft)
Excerpt From Element Traversal Specification
- This specification defines the
ElementTraversalinterface, which allows script navigation of the elements of a DOM tree, excluding all other nodes in the DOM, such as text nodes. It also provides an attribute to expose the number of child elements of an element. It is intended to provide a more convenient alternative to existing DOM navigation interfaces, with a low implementation footprint.
- 1. Introduction
- This section is informative.
- The DOM Level 1
Nodeinterface defines 11 node types, but most commonly authors wish to operate solely on
nodeType 1, the
Elementnode. Other node types include the
Textnodes, which include whitespace and line breaks. DOM 1 node traversal includes all of these node types, which is often a source of confusion for authors and which requires an extra step for authors to confirm that the expected
Elementnode interfaces are available. This introduces an additional performance constraint.
ElementTraversalis an interface which allows the author to restrict navigation to
Elementnodes. It permits navigation from an element to its first element child, its last element child, and to its next or previous element siblings. Because the implementation exposes only the element nodes, the memory and computational footprint of the DOM representation can be optimized for constrained devices.
- The DOM Level 1 Node interface also defines the childNodes attribute, which is a live list of all child nodes of the node; the
childNodeslist has a
lengthattribute to expose the total number of child nodes of all
nodeTypes, useful for preprocessing operations and calculations before, or instead of, looping through the child nodes. The
ElementTraversalinterface has a similar attribute,
childElementCount, that reports only the number of
Elementnodes, which is often what is desired for such operations.
- 2. ElementTraversal interface
- This section is normative.
ElementTraversalinterface is a set of attributes which allow an author to easily navigate between elements in a document. In conforming implementations of Element Traversal, all objects that implement
Elementmust also implement Element Traversal. Four of the attributes,
nextElementSibling, each provide a live reference to another element with the defined relationship to the current element, if the related element exists. The fifth attribute,
childElementCount, exposes the number of child elements of an element, for preprocessing before navigation. A conforming User Agent must implement all five attributes. A User Agent may implement similar interfaces in other specifications, but such implementation is not required for conformance to this specification, if the User Agent is designed for a minimal code footprint.
- This interface must be implemented on all elements, regardless of their namespace. For the purpose of Element Traversal, an entity reference node which represents an element must be treated as an element node. Navigation must be irrespective of namespace, e.g. if an element in the HTML namespace is followed by element in the SVG namespace, the
nextElementSiblingattribute on the HTML element will return the SVG element.
Summary of Action Items Assigned at the 2008/04/21 Handlers Call
ACTION: Neil contact Aaron Leventhal and Alexander Surkov about Expert Handlers expectations/desires from an implementor's viewpoint; invite to next telecon (2008/04/28)
- adjourned: 1914h UTC
- Agenda for 2008/04/28 Expert Handlers Call