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Open A11y Working Group Conference Call (9 December 2008)

Preliminary Items


  • Janina Sajka (JS/chair)
    • Andrés G. Aragoneses (AA)
    • Stew Benedict (SB)
    • Gregory J. Rosmaita (GJR/scribe)
    • Olaf Schmidt (OS)
    • Brad Taylor (BT/Novell)
    • Will Walker (WW)
      • regrets: Pete Brunet

For Reference

Approval of Past Minutes

Action Items Status Review

  • Summary of Action Items Assigned at the 2008-12-02 Open A11y Conference Call
    • ACTION Janina: raise larger and more general liscencing issues with KarenC
    • ACTION GJR: send email with upcoming Open A11y schedule to list
      • status: done
    • ACTION: GJR - prepare alternate versions of Open A11y portal page
      • status: pending; the back-end is being switched to drupal and a style guide is being produced, both of which GJR needs to review, comment upon and work with LF staff
    • ACTION: GJR - post tersified Mission Statement prose to accessibility list
      • status: in progress

Meeting Dates and Times for December 2008/January 2009

  • There will be a regularly scheduled Open A11y call:
  • There will be no Open A11y calls on:
    • 23 December 2008
    • 30 December 2008
  • Regular Open A11y calls will resume as normal on 6 January 2009

Meeting Minutes

Note: These minutes have not yet been approved.

Topic 1: IPR Issues Update

JS: Karen Coopenhaven met with Microsoft's lawyers last week; a larger group of LF and AIA officials supposed to meet last Friday but the meeting was canceled

JS: problem identified by Microsoft's lawyers: LGPL and LGPL 2.0 are silent with respect to patents, and Microsoft cannot be silent with respect to patents according to their lawyers

JS: LF board considering if can move to different kind of license without sacrificing openness both of process and product

JS: another IPR issues meeting will be held this week at LF -- interested parties?

OS: i would be interested in knowing reasons for not choosing LGPL

JS: KarenC explained reasons have to do with legal principles: when a license doesn't state something specifically, courts are able to assume and assert unspecified legal principles and precedents

OS: what would we loose? perhaps have different approach to patents that is ok for us, but need to be careful

JS: yes; LF very eager to be careful to protect the kernel - last thing anyone wants is patents on the kernel

JS: Olaf, would you like to participate in these conversations regularly?

OS: yes

JS: great - you are the best in the group on IPR issues

GJR: i will try to attend, as well if schedule permits

Topic 2: Project Updates

AA: released first 0.9 version

JS: saw free desktop announcement -- please recap developments?

AA: i'm not working on the free desktop, but the mono accessibility framework

JS: mixed up MarkD's project with yours

AA: on 24 November 2008, released 0.9 release of mono; going to make another release with mono 2.2 called 0.91 in the very near future

JS: in a state for others to work with or test?

AA: would say yes, but is a "developer release"

BT: ok to play with, but don't rely on it

JS: congratulations

WW: what are you using for testing?

AA: 3 test suites: 2 unit tests 1 on strongwind

WW: who is developing StrongWind?

BT: no one other than us

WW: momentum building around Linux Desktop Testing Project (LDTP) about testing and Magnus' work; DogTail, StrongWind -- StrongWind strong candidate, but more people using LDTP -- what are your thoughts if GNOME community adapted LDTP?

BT: DogTail or LDTP are good and compatible; patches are minor; will do more research on LDTP

WW: want to get objective tester -- want GNOME community to decide on a technology that is usable and has support for GNOME community to REALLY get started

JS: need testing against LSB

JS: Mark Doffman not here, so we won't talk DBus today; will ping him to see if he can attend the 16 December 2008 meeting or at least provide an update to the list; new ATK DBus port release in early form up for testing; heard some vague talk about interfacing KDE implementations

OS: don't know much more than that -- sent MarkD email today to ask how can developers without accessibility experience can use this to test; no reply yet

JS: PeteB not here; IA2 issues still to move forward - heard some email traffic on that; will be looking to organize specific AT-SPI meetings early next year

Topic 3: SIG Updates

Expert Handlers Links to Further Discussion:

Topic 4: Website Update

JS: GJR's current action items on the Open Accessibility portal reformat may be rendered moot by LF; LF looking to move to different look-and-feel; back-end will be drupal; spoke with developer last week, emphasized our concern -- need to walk our talk on the website; offered GJR as resource

GJR: been in touch with David Ames; will re-ping to ascertain;

JS: a LF style guide is also being developed; GJR trying to get into loop on that, as well

OS: drupal is also system increasingly used for KDE Accessibility site; questions for setting up drupal in accessible manner, can call on me; my impression: better if configured correctly; KDE Accessibility site Triple-A compliant to WCAG 1.0

GJR: in contact with drupal accessibility person

OS: forward me address to get in touch with him?

GJR: yes

New Business

2009 Face-to-Face Meeting Planning

JS: KDE's Akademy 2009 and Guadec are being held next year at the same place (Las Palmas de Gran Canaria) and same time (beginning 3 July 2009) -- ideal time-frame for an Open A11y face to face meeting in Los Palmas; are we still aiming for that?

scribe's note: general agreement that this is a good idea and a good target to aim towards

JS: have some ideas on how to get travel funding

JS: is it still good idea to target that time-frame and whom should we invite and what should be on agenda

WW: travel going to be difficult due to economy; a lot of lay-offs; want to get community behind us and ramp up mark, mike and Andres' work to a broader audience; focused meeting on fundamentals; other things: re-evaluate where we are as a community; new projects; GNOME 3.0 accessibility issues/concerns; doing in conjunction with GWADEC and Akademy good target to aim for

JS: will investigate available funding

WW: GNOME speech as platform for GNOME, KDE - speech service universally available on desktop; just a service; those working toward that are underfunded - we might have a better starting point now

OS: quite extensive discussions at KDE conference a few years back; had idea of moving to speech on back-end for KDE -- problem was lack of manpower to make it a reality, but goal to have system that can be used by everyone is still very very important

WW: like AT-SPI -- everything on DBus has potential to facilitate this

JS: need to get as many GNOME and KDE developers together; like idea of DBus, speech service, and focusing on things that affect both communities directly

JS: ordinary users should be able to take advantage of our work within a year

GJR: audio on back end

WW: head count for resources; AT-SPI on DBus; speech service no funding or resources

JS: so also need to look for funding to carry speech service forward

WW: 2 people working on it could pull it off

GJR: can we leverage this work with audio issues?

JS: that's another layer to the whole ball of wax and in some ways different, but all part of the stack; speech service can't do it all =-- somethings need to be addressed at audio layer -- need to bind screen reader with single device to reliably have speech service -- that is my speech card and speaker;

JS: asked Jonathan Blanford of RedHat during LF conference about this; is an absolute must for a11y -- have to know what is device0 what is device1 and has to be persistent so user can rely on them; should remind him of that conversation

JS: distribution-level thing

WW: agree, but could work on generic way to specify audio device speech layer wouldn't have to worry about were speech going to be generated

JS: have to have mapping persistence

JS: cede balance of time; start thinking in terms of face2face during GWADEC and Akademy -- who do we need to bring to the table to talk

JS: send suggestions as to participants to me, please

Identify Topics for the 16 December 2008 Teleconference

  • report from Mark Doffman on DBus port progress; if Mark cannot attend the meeting, have him send update to the list

Wrap Up