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Accessibility/IAccessible2/Agenda/20081202

From The Linux Foundation

Agenda for 2008/12/02

  1. Introductions if needed
  2. Approval of minutes - Corrections? Approval?
  3. LF: Open A11y news - Janina
    • There was a second meeting between LF and Microsoft attorneys on Nov 12.
    • Action item: Status report from Janina.
  4. CSUN
    • There was a question on the list about the convergence of MSAA/IA2 with UIA. This should be taken up with the AIA. The following was taken from a recent mail thread starting with this post.
      • Is there a need for this?
      • Is continued alignment with ATK/AT-SPI still important?
      • When is it needed?
      • What are the technical challenges?
      • What are the business challenges?
      • What are the various solutions?
      • Who are the stakeholders?
      • How strong is the desire to accomplish the goal?
    • We are waiting for the LF and Microsoft attorneys to complete their discussions before Janina approaches the AIA.
  5. AccProbe inspect tool - Mike Squillace
    • Pending decision of AccProbe team as to whether or not AccProbe should be moved from Eclipse to LF.
    • It would have to be relicensed from EPL.
  6. Firefox - Marco Zehe
    • There are some minor mismatches between the IA2 text attributes spec and the Mozilla spec and/or implementation. Pete needs to complete the investigation of this for Mozilla prior to December 10. See the notes below on IA2 text attributes.
  7. IA2 as a LF standard
    • Recently the LF Open A11y WG voted to submit the IA2 standard to the LF BoD for approval.
    • Remaining work items:
      • Add attribution for trademarks. Please review the following:
        1. Go to http://dev.linuxfoundation.org/~ptbrunet/ia2/docs/html/
        2. Click on General Information near the bottom
        3. Notice the 3 trademark symbols in the "Error Handling" section.
        4. Notice the 2 trademark symbols in the "Discovery of Interfaces" section.
        5. Notice the 1 trademark symbol in the "Changing between Accessible Interfaces" section.
        6. Notice the attribution statement in the "Trademark Attribution" section.
      • Move 3/26/2007 1.0.1 IDL and 10/13/2008 1.0.2 IDLs into BZR.
      • Close out bugs that have been addressed.
  8. The text attributes spec has been implemented in Firefox. There are the following issues:
  9. Proxy DLL
    • Jamie sent Pete his RC file so it can be compared to the one attached to bug 110.
    • When the 1.0.2 files are added to BZR, Pete to include the files needed to build the proxy DLL.
    • The process for building the DLL needs to be updated to cover the use of Visual C Express Edition.
    • That wiki page probably needs other changes.
  10. Directory of Software on IA2 main page
    • Mick and Jamie felt Qt should enable their Win support. Janina to follow up with her recent contact at Nokia and Mick and/or Jamie to see if they can submit a request for this to be added. A product called VirtualBox uses Qt.
  11. Access to document revisions - from the ODF AccSC
    • This was reviewed by the AIA Interop group. The following issues were raised.
      1. What is the solution for non-text attributes, e.g. tables, images, charts, cells, spreadsheets?
        • From Oliver-Rainer Wittmann at Sun: Currently, the OOo Writer does not support change tracking for tables, table rows, table cells and anchored objects (text frames, graphics, embedded objects and drawing objects).
          • Pending response from Malte regarding if support is being added for these.
        • From Niklas Nebel at Sun: Recorded changes in spreadsheets are somewhat different from text documents: The spreadsheet cell structure only contains the current state. Changes are not part of a cell's content, but separate. Possible changes are:
          1. Content changes
          2. Inserting/deleting columns/rows
          3. Inserting sheets
          4. Moving cell ranges
          • Pending response from Niklas to some questions:
            1. Is there a link to the spec that describes those changes?
            2. What if a sheet is removed? Only insertion is mentioned.
            3. What is a cell range and what does it mean to move them? An example / use case would probably be enough to describe this.
          • I don't think the proposed set of a11y interfaces and methods will work for a spreadsheet. Does anyone have an idea for a solution that would work for both writer and calc (and other apps)? Should we move forward with the existing spec for text revisions and add a spec for spreadsheets. Or should we define a spec that will work with a wider range of applications?
      2. How are comment only revisions handled?
        • Malte Timmerman doesn't think this is a feature of OpenOffice. Is there any request for this from the IA2 community?
      3. Probably need more kinds of format changes besides insertion, deletion, and format change.
        • Malte wasn't supportive of this. Is there any request for this from the IA2 community?
      4. Is more granularity needed for format changes, i.e. is it enough to just say there was a format change or should the kind of format change be indicated?
        • Malte said that as far as he knows this was discussed and the decision was to keep it at the current level of granularity. Is there any request for this from the IA2 community?
      5. Use cases are needed.
        • Does the IA2 community request use cases beyond what is already implemented in OpenOffice?
      6. getSegmentAtOffset (singular) needs to be getSegmentsAtOffset (plural) because unlike links there could be overlapping insertions and deletions.
        • From Oliver-Rainer Wittmann at Sun: In OOo Writer there are no overlapping revisions/change trackings. The OOo Writer breaks a certain change tracking into corresponding pieces, if the user creates overlapping revisions/change trackings. Thus, revisions/change trackings are properly nested in OOo Writer. But nevertheless, there can be several change trackings at a certain cursor position. Thus, the proposed change is reasonable.
    • Once these issues are resolved Li Yuan, the committer for ATK/AT-SPI will develop a patch.

enum IA2RevisionType {
  IA2_REVTYPE_INSERTION, 
  IA2_REVTYPE_DELETION,
  IA2_REVTYPE_FORMAT_CHANGE  // The revision is due to any change in formatting attributes. 
};

typedef struct {
    enum IA2RevisionType type;  
    BSTR time;  ///< ISO 8601 format:  YYYY-MM-DDThh:mm:ss (eg 1997-07-16T19:20:21)
    BSTR author;
    BSTR comments;
} IA2RevisionInformation;

IARevisionText:
 
// Note: an object that implements IARevisionText must also implement IAText
 
// returns the number of segments available for the
// block of text represented by the IARevisionText object.
// this number is 1 based
get_segmentCount( long* count );
 
// returns a specific segment based on the index passed in
// the index is 0 based.
// no two indexes should return the same segment.
// any index >= 0, and less than the segment count should return a valid segment
// any index outside those bounds should set HRESULT to S_FALSE and return NULL
get_segment( long index,  IARevisionSegment** seg );
 
// returns a segment whose boundaries encompass the offset provided
// if there are no segments that correspond to the given offset, an error is produced
// offsets correspond identically to those used by IAText and IAHyperlink
get_segmentAtOffset( long offset, IARevisionSegment** seg );

IARevisionSegment:
 
// returns the bounding offsets of the segment within the IARevisionText/IAText object.
// the end offset is one past the last character in the revision text
get_bounds( long* start, long* end );

// returns a struct containing date/time, author, and comments
get_attributes( IA2RevisionInformation *revision_info );
 
// returns a set of name value pairs describing additional application
// specific attributes in the format "name:value;name:value"
get_extraAttributes( BSTR* extraAttributes );

No progress on the following

  1. Access to smart tags
    • Symphony uses IAHypertext/IAHyperlink for smart tags. This seems reasonable because smart tags are very similar to links. They represent actionable text. IAHyperlink can represent more than one action which is common for smart tags.
      • One requirement is for links and smart tags to be differentiated. This can be done with an object attribute on the accessible that represents the link object. Are there any issues with that approach?
  2. IA2 issues from Calvin Gaisford, opened on the behalf of AIA.
  3. IA2 object attributes specification.
    • The Symphony and FF3 object attributes will be reviewed. The common attributes will become part of the IA2 object attributes spec and the spec will reference the FF3 and Symphony specific specifications. (The Symphony object attributes are not documented on any Symphony web site, but they'll soon be documented on the IA2 site.)
    • Pete to add a "display" attribute with CSS2 values.
  4. Items raised by NVDA last year need to be put on the agenda for an upcoming Open A11y meeting
    • These are generic issues that need to be solved for both IA2 and ATK/AT-SPI dealing with objects contained in documents and tables
    • See items 4 and 5 in the October 2nd 2007 minutes for the history.
    • This was discussed during the January 22 Open a11y meeting.
    • These should be reopened and discussed with Willie and Li Yuan at a call convenient to the US, China, and Australia.
  5. Eclipse
  6. Wikipedia
  7. Developer Guide - Best practices document. We should start an outline for a best practices document. For starters it should define the following:
    • What events should be fired for each role and in what order.
    • What object hierarchy should be used. There are two today, a flat hierarchy as used in Symphony and a deeper hierarchy as used in Firefox. These two should be documented and in order to cut down on the proliferation of designs, future applications should attempt to use one or the other.
  8. Oleacc.idl
    • No new status on when it will be back in the SDK.
  9. FAQ

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